A Fire Manager with a Unique Perspective on Dispatch

[This is the “One of Our Own” feature that appeared in the Summer 2018 Issue of Two More Chains. Jeff Andrews is now the Fire Staff Officer on the Prescott National Forest, temporarily acting in the position of Assistant Director of Fire and Aviation Management (Budget, Planning, Prevention, Cooperative Fire & Incident Business) for the Southwestern Region of the U.S. Forest Service.]

By Travis Dotson and Paul Keller

When Jeff Andrews was a hotshot at the very beginning of his 30 years—and counting—in the wildland fire world, an injury temporarily bumped him out of service.

“I was one of those folks back then who was placed in Dispatch for a month,” Jeff explains.

Jeff Andrews is a fire manager whose background includes serving as a Dispatch Center Manager. He therefore has a ton of helpful lessons and insights concerning our Dispatchers.

This short-term assignment would prove to be very big on the learning front for Jeff.

“That was my first real eye-opening experience on Dispatch,” he says. “I quickly learned that it was far more than just talking on the radio and filling out card stock.”

“I was pretty fortunate,” Jeff continues. “I learned a lot in that brief period of time about all of the other facets and components of what a Dispatcher does and what happens within a Dispatch Center. I thought it was all very interesting.”

After 13 years on the hotshot crew, Jeff would continue his fire career serving as an Assistant Zone Fire Management Officer and Forest Fire Management Officer/Forest Aviation Officer. He has also worked 10 years as Deputy Fire Staff/Forest Aviation Officer, during which time Jeff supervised a Center Manager and the Dispatch Center.

Today, Jeff has been detailed from the Prescott National Forest to serve as a Fire Management Specialist in Budget and Planning for the Southwestern Region. He is also the Incident Commander for the Southwest Area Team 5, Type 2 Incident Management Team.

And there’s another past work experience that makes this fire manager especially knowledgeable when it comes to the Dispatch world. For about one year and a half he also served as a Dispatch Center Manager.

Becoming Dispatch Center Manager

“My understanding of Dispatch quickly evolved when I went into that Center Manager role,” Jeff assures. At that time he was an AFMO. They advertised for their Dispatch Center Manager job three different times and were unsuccessful. Next, Jeff’s Fire Staff asked him if he’d be interested in taking that job.

“I said, sure, why not. It’s something new and completely different. Let’s give it a try. We’re at risk of losing our Dispatch Center because we can’t find folks to manage it.” Jeff continues, “So that was very eye-opening. And by no means am I a technical expert. But we had a lot of really good folks in the Center, folks who were very technically competent. They just didn’t have the time in grade to qualify for the Center Manager position.” Reflecting back today, Jeff says that serving as the Dispatch Center Manager was “the best job” he’s had in the U.S. Forest Service. “I learned a ton and it was a great experience.”

On the 2012 Halstead Fire on the Salmon-Challis National Forest: far left, Bob Houseman, Incident Commander of the Phoenix NIMO Team; second from left, Jeff Andrews, the team’s Operations Section Chief; third from left, Idaho Governor “Butch” Otter. (Two folks on right unidentified.)

Are Dispatchers Firefighters?

“You bet they’re firefighters,” affirms this fire manager. “It takes a whole bunch of different folks with different skills and backgrounds to manage fires. Dispatchers play a critical role in fire management and fire response. While they’re not out on the ground and subject to the hazards that somebody might be who’s on the end of pulaski, there’s a whole host of other hazards—especially as it relates to mental wellness,” Jeff points out. “Dispatchers are as much of a firefighter as I am as a Type 2 IC.”

Is There Exposure to Trauma in Dispatch?

“Yes, for sure,” Jeff confirms. “It’s a difficult and stressful job in so many different ways. For our Dispatchers, there’s a tremendous amount of exposure to trauma.” Furthermore, he believes this exposure contributes to the “mental hazards” of being a Dispatcher.

Jeff explains how in 2013 the Dispatch Center on his Prescott National Forest was exposed to the nearby tragic Yarnell Hill Fire that took the lives of 19 Granite Mountain Hotshots. “While that wasn’t a fire that our Dispatch Center was in operational control of managing, certainly there’s a lot of information that comes over the radio, especially the aviation traffic. And, of course, it’s difficult for folks to deal with that, especially from being in a remote position.”

A Critical Irony

This fire manager acknowledges a critical irony.

Many people might believe that Dispatchers are physically removed from where the trauma is happening out on the line and therefore aren’t exposed to this trauma. But, in reality, that space and time component, that feeling of helplessness, actually helps to trigger a Dispatcher’s trauma. They can’t run through the radio and help.

“There’s no question that this definitely becomes a contributing factor to the Dispatchers’ trauma and their mental hazards,” Jeff assures.

A Heavy Burden to Bear

Jeff explains how, often times, the Dispatcher is the critical link during a tragic event or urgent, escalating medical events. “They become the link between somebody on the ground getting the help that they need and your ability to procure or come up with that service. That’s a lot to have rest on your shoulders.”

Jeff points out how our Dispatchers don’t want to let down the firefighters out on the line.

Jeff and his daughter Ava in Ouray, Colorado during the fall of 2012.

“And their work becomes just as important as what’s happening out on the ground. In some cases, it might even be more important than what’s happening out on the ground. That’s a heavy burden to bear.”

During Your Ten Years of Supervising the Dispatch Center Did You Worry About Your Dispatchers?

“Yes, for sure I did, whether as a Center Manager or as an FMO supervising Dispatch. We worry about them a lot because it’s a stressful job and there’s really no downtime. I mean, you’re always on call. And you’re often underappreciated or forgot about.”

For example, Jeff points out how while the rest of the fire folks are on vacation during Christmas holiday, the Dispatchers are still going to be on call. “That’s going to wear on a person year after year, especially for our career Dispatchers who have to keep their Centers open seven days a week, 365 days a year,” he says. “And, in some cases, I think there are Dispatch Centers that are understaffed. That contributes to this predicament even more.”

This fire manager has another perception and concern about the Dispatching job. “They work in close quarters, in an office environment 365 days a year. You know how in August and September how driving in a crew carrier can get on your nerves after a while? Line folks always have more of a physical outlet, more of an opportunity to get away—but not so much for our Dispatchers.”

Jeff shares another concern he has about our Dispatchers.

“Something else I worry about is how our Dispatchers don’t get to see the final product or celebrate the fruits of their labor. Whereas you and I might be on the ground and we can see the rewards from putting in a line or putting a fire out. Dispatchers don’t get to celebrate that.”

Jeff continues, “So, for Dispatchers, it’s not as easy to rejoice over your accomplishments. And that’s a toxin as it wears on. You don’t know whether or not your efforts are appreciated immediately—unless folks are providing you feedback.”

Overlooked and Underappreciated

“I believe Dispatchers are critical to the success of the fire management organization,” Jeff says. “And yet they are often overlooked and underappreciated. Out of sight; out of mind.

“You just don’t realize or appreciate how much work goes on behind the scenes to get a cubie of water delivered to the line or whatever it might be in terms of supply or service in general. There’s a lot of work off season and during the season to make everything happen and it’s basically all taken for granted.”

How Can FMOs and Fire Managers Become Better at Supervising Their Dispatchers?

“You have to jump in and spend some significant time working in and around that program,” Jeff answers. He says that you also have to get the Dispatchers involved, whether it’s a Center Manager or Assistant Manager, in other aspects of the unit’s fire and aviation management program—“have them attend the conference calls, go to the meetings, get out on the ground with the troops.”

“And it’s really important that you hear their perspective, their side of story. It will make a better overall fire management program if you can understand the pros and cons or difficulties with how your Dispatchers are able to perform their jobs.”

Jeff is also a proponent of “cross-training”.

“Just as I should learn a bit more about the Dispatch job, they also need to learn a bit more about some of the other functional areas. I think they would find it rewarding and have opportunities away from the Dispatch Center, to take on an assignment that’s not Dispatch related.”

How Can We Do a Better Job of Preparing Our Dispatchers for Dealing with the Aftermath of Tragedies?

On the 2016 Coyote Fire in Guadalupe Mountains National Park, from left: Alan Sinclair, Incident Commander, Southwest Area Type 2 IMT; Ed Hiatt, Incident Commander Trainee; and Jeff Andrews, Deputy Incident Commander.

“First, is the awareness that they’re involved in the incident. You need to recognize that and then utilize some of the tools that have been created over the last 10-20 years in terms of peer support. There’s a degree of preparation or proactive things that we can also do to prepare for these events.”

Jeff explains that besides the physical hazards, we also need to focus on the mental hazards. “I think we’ve made great progress in the last several years in recognizing the mental hazards that are associated with wildland fire tragedies.” But he stresses how we can’t overlook Dispatchers being included in these peer support efforts.

“I think we’re getting better at that and we’re evolving with peer support,” Jeff acknowledges. “But nowhere do we really prepare you to be on the other end of a radio when you’re dealing with a tragedy.”

Jeff continues, “The police departments and the fire departments have been in this business for a long time. They do a better job of training their folks to deal with these scenarios. We’re getting better at it. But, for us, it’s not that mainstream yet.”

Let’s end this serious topic on a lighter note:

What’s the Funniest Thing You Ever Heard Over the Radio?

Jeff has a darn good one.

“I think of this long conversation that was between a Module Leader and the Dispatch Center. It was the description of a large glow that was visible, describing it as an escalating fire. I think it was about five minutes of conversation.

“They had this fire out there. It’s rapidly growing, an intense glow. They’re ordering up as many resources as they could—only to find out that it was simply the moon coming up from behind the mountains.”

18 thoughts on “A Fire Manager with a Unique Perspective on Dispatch

  1. While Dispatchers and Type 1 ICs fill vital roles in the Fire world, I would reserve the title “Firefighter” for those young women and men who actually are one the line, in harm’s way, using their tools to work a fire. I consider the rest of us, including Dispatchers and TYPE 1 ICs, to be in support of those dedicated people who live and sometimes sleep in the dirt.

  2. Thank you everyone for highlighting the hard-working men and women in the dispatch center. As a former Dispatcher and Center Manager it is good to remind everyone that we are there 24/7. Many of us were, boots on the ground, Firefighters and for one reason or another found our way into the dispatch center. We always considered ourselves Firefighters first and Dispatchers/support second; we are all part of the same Fire Family.

  3. I’m sorry, I really have to disagree with the tone of this article.

    Dispatchers are dispatchers, firefighters are firefighters. Dispatchers don’t fight fire. They talk on the radio and type things on the computer. They are involved in wildland fire as much as the IT people who put our computers together, the admins who do our time, and HR people who onboard new hires.

    All this talk about trauma is just baloney. Dispatchers don’t have trauma because they are never exposed to it. If they have a medical they call 911 and that’s it. They aren’t involved in IWI stuff. And operationally, very few of them have ever even seen fire, much less have any real qualifications in fire. The author is a highly experienced and qualified firefighter, but he is an exception. Someone with 30 years in dispatch might have, once, gone on a severity roll. Might.

    Fact is that the author is biased by his proximity. He considers dispatchers firefighters because he ran a dispatch for a while. But the rest of us know that dispatch does very little in the firefighting process. They take the call from 911, tell the engines where to go, and that’s it. There is nothing emergency related, technical, or demanding about it. Especially when you consider they spend their entire day sitting in an air conditioned office, work straight 8s with little need for OT (ask one, scarce you find one with more than 100hrs of OT in a year), and get to see their family at the end of the day. They don’t bear the physical or mental scars that us line firefighters do.

    Really this article comes up again because dispatchers are sad about not being in the new wildland firefighter series because OPM finally saw through the BS and rightfully declared that they don’t need any fire knowledge to take a call and point the engines where to go.

    Here is an idea: if dispatchers want to be called firefighters, they should get a job where they fight fire.

    • Sounds like someone needs to do some time in dispatch. Don’t argue with me. I have fought fire on the ground and also work in dispatch. Did both side by side for 20 years. You will loose the argument.

    • You realize dispatchers are required to have a minimum of 90 days firefighting experience, right? Meaning we were firefighters before we became dispatchers. I think you need some education about what that job entails. Your condescending tone is oozing with ignorance.

    • Over 60 percent of wildland fire dispatchers have over 10 years of fire operations experience. Most still hold red cards and I don’t know where you get your info but 8 hour days are rare in dispatch outside of the 2-4 month off season. I was in operations for 14 years (7 years on an IHC)and dispatch for 8. I can tell you from personal experience that my time in dispatch were the most stressful years of my career. A 12 hour busy shift in dispatch feels like a 36 hour shift of burning out and cutting hotline on a shot crew. I’ll take physical fatigue over mental fatigue any day.

    • @ex-hotshot, You should have done some time in a dispatch center. Then again, they wouldn’t have wanted you in there because you probably would have pissed in a corner to show your self-perceived dominance.

    • While I agree that dispatchers are not on the fire line fighting fire with hand tools, water or dozers, we in dispatch are exposed to trauma when OUR people in the field are involved in a traumatic event. It is extremely traumatic for the dispatcher who has to sit in the communication center not able to physically help one of their own that is in the field in trouble.

    • I’m a dispatcher with eleven fire seasons of firefighting experience on the ground and in the air. Spend time in a dispatch center and you’ll realize how naive your comments are. I have witnessed more death and near fatalities (and facilitated rescues and medical responses) as a dispatcher than I ever did while firefighting. I would bet your butt has been saved or kept out of trouble at least once by a dispatcher, you just don’t know it…

    • I challenge you to come to MY Dispatch Center…virtually everything in your reply is untrue & said with such a lack of respect for the people who actually help keep YOU safe it’s rather disgusting to me. I dare you to dispatch for a week….even a day during a fire flap….talk to me about “scars” when you know you were the last voice a pilot heard before crashing…quite frankly, your response shows your absolute ignorance & total lack of understanding of what a dispatcher really does

    • As a current Hotshot, I’m very disappointed in your arrogance and rudeness. I haven’t served in dispatch, but they are necessary to our ability to get people off the line quickly when injured (you’re also doing a huge disservice to Andy Palmer by disregarding all of the lessons we learned from his death), and I’ve never met a Hotshot before who isn’t grateful for a solid dispatcher. I very much doubt your claim to being a Hotshot, and if you were I’d say you were probably kicked off your crew and are now lashing out. To any dispatcher who sees this – every Hotshot under the sun is aware of how important you are, don’t listen to this yayhoo. He’s just trolling.

  4. To the Ex-hotshot- from what I can read, it doesn’t seem like you have done any time in dispatch, how do you know what is done other than partially listening to being dispatched to a fire? I welcome you to come and work on the floor one fire season and see if your outlook is the same. What you have typed is ignorant and this is coming from someone who has worked on an engine for over 10 years and now on the dispatch floor. What happened to working on the same team and respecting each other. This isn’t a comparison on income but achieving the same goal at the end of the day.. going home to family safely. Mission accomplished!! I am very embarrassed to know that the Forest Service has/or had an employee that views others the way you do. Before you give your comments do your homework first.

  5. @Ex-hotshot – Wow – wish you would have spent some time in dispatch. Nothing more bone chilling than hearing a plane crashed over the radio or someone asking for jaws of life over the radio.

  6. Funny story! We had a similar scenario where we were doing burn ops at night on a wildfire and all of a sudden everyone freaked out because we thought there was a big spot. Just ended up being the moon.

  7. This comment (from a retired dispatcher) was posted along with the latest recruitment announcement for the fire dispatcher position. Although for a large county-wide fire department, we have significant wildland responses and host several Type 1 and Type 2 incidents almost every year.

    “To anyone who is interested in applying for this job – do your due diligence about it. Know that you will be giving up holidays and special days with your kids and loved ones because of the shift schedule. Go plug in with a dispatcher and listen to things you’ll be required to do. Ride along with a station if you can so you know that side of it too. Know your county and city streets and city and county boundaries – and your cardinal directions (N, S, E & W). This job will cause you trauma, so if you take it – be open to therapy and make sure you have a good support system in place. This is a great job – a very rewarding, privileged job. It’s a life and death job. I do hope a lot of you apply because amazing dispatchers are ALWAYS needed – please just educate yourself and make sure it’s for you💜”

    Most of the points are valid regardless of location or type of fire service.They are a critical link in the entire delivery system.

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